Starter 1911's

[Metalchemist]

One of my New Year's resolutions is to buy more guns.
I'm in the market for a 1911, BUT i don't have a grand (1000.00) to drop on one.
Has anyboby had any experience with Para Ordinances GI Expert.
This looks to my inexperienced 1911 eye as a decent starter 1911.
Any feed back, or other suggestions is appreciated.

[Chris]

Mas Ayoob tested one. I handled it while I was over at his place for a podcast. It looked good to me. Actually, I was impressed with it. Excellent trigger. Maybe Mas will chime in, but I think it would fit your requirements.
Chris Christian - Team Pro Arms

[Kingofthehill]

I was just about to recommend the Para GI Expert when i started reading your thread to see you mention it first.

Ive been wanting to get a budget 1911 to really work out and have been considering the Rock Island and the Springfield GI.  I was going to go with the Springfield for the name but after shooting a GI Expert yesterday, im way into the Para now.

Yes the RI is a tad cheaper, but you get a much much nicer gun with the Para... and the Para is the same price as the Springer GI.

I would also say id rather have the Expert over the Taurus.  Im a fan of Taurus products but i don't care for the taurus 1911... their at a price point you can almost get into a Springfield Loaded.

JOe

[Hk940]

Well right now the big bucks are being paid for frame, slide, barrel fit.

Rock Island, Springfield, Para and Taurus are all great guns.
They go bang every time. They are all accurate within reason. They are all 100% GI.
You can take any of them to a gunsmith and have Ed brown or wilson combat parts added.

I have a buddy who sent a rock island off to a local 1911 smith with $1000.00 and now has a Awsome gun. 

So get any of the above, shoot, enjoy, upgrade as you see fit with quality parts and tweek the gun to your taste.
 

[Hk940]

Just got to add I don't think there is a lot worse than buying a "custom" Les Bear Thunder Ranch special and realizing your idea of a 1911 and Clint Smiths differ to the point the gun does not work for you so you end up swapping parts anyway.

I like Wilson combat parts. I also feel they benefit from a little dremel tool grinding on operating surfaces. Why not reangle that safety.  Maybe reshape the beaver tail or put a extended slide stop on the gun if those things help your shooting. Most of those parts run $30-50 each so for a couple boxes of ammo you can build up and have a bit of fun and get something that Fits and suits YOU!  Best part is if you go slow and watch how everything mates up you can get a good feeling for how the gun works.   

Let's say the entry level 1911 is not accurate enough so you have a gun smith drop in a match barrel, link and bushing. It may cost you $500.00 buy you can hit a pie plate at 50 yds.     

[wyoshooter]

I've also been contemplating the GI Expert for quite sometime.  I've handled them and they seem great.  The one thing that gives me pause is that the review in American Rifleman said the finish was wearing on the slide during their testing.  I don't have a problem with a nice worn gun, I've had plenty and think it adds character but not after a run of the mill gun review.  Any feedback on how the finish wears?

[Leth]

The very impartial reviewers of Gun-Tests.com (subscriber, not advertiser funded) did a review of two budget-priced 1911s : The $499 Rock Island Armory Tactical and the $482 Firestorm DLX. The Rock Island Armory Tactical came out on top with an A- rating and the following summary:
 
"There are 1911 pistols with more features, and many that are more accurate. But here, in which pricing was a controlling factor, we think the RIA is an affordable pistol with good features. The sights are good, the trigger and controls are crisp, and the pistol features an ambidextrous safety. The pistol is reliable and accurate as well. The locking hard case and spare magazine are rock candy to the deal. If you want more features and a better finish, you will have to spend considerably more money." gun-tests.com   July 2009

BTW - The Firestorm received a C rating after experiencing issues with the slide lock and a loose link.

Might be worth looking into.

[Rob Kroupa]

I think you are going about it the right way. You can buy a basic 1911 (both the para and RIA make good choices), shoot lots of boxes through it, and they upgrade what you find needs upgrading.

I bought a more expensive 1911 and it is almost perfect for me but it still has little things that if I had built it up I would have done different.

So to sum it all up, buy a good starter and shoot it until you find something you want changed.

[xmunckx]

This could not have been better timed.

A couple months ago I picked up a brand new GI Expert on an whim for $480. .
Here is what I have found after roughly 800 rounds through it:

First off.  this is not a gun you can just take out of the box, throw on your hip, and trust it with your life.

In the interest of full disclosure this is my first real experience with an 1911 and may just be common of the breed but this gun did flat out goofy things for the first 500 rounds or so.
The biggest problem I had was that the slide would not want to fully return to battery all the time after firing a shot.
Sometimes it would flat out become "Stuck" and I would have to use a table to press the gun against to ge the slide to cycle again.
What made this all so strange is that, right out of the box the gun felt very smooth, , and then 100 rounds in felt like it was dragging through mud, , then it would smooth out, , then Mud again. .

All that being said, , now that it seems to be "broken in" i have not been experiencing any problems with the mechanical functions of the gun and my last 200 rounds went through without a hitch.

So, , if you decide to get one I can't stress enough that theses things NEED to be broken in.

Accuracy: 
The accuracy of this pistol is somewhat deceiving. . With the pistol rested on a table it seems to be perfectly capable of making 2" groups at 50' consistently.
So mechanically the accuracy is decent. . the trouble is the sights. allot of people have different opinions of sights but these are "not great"  from the factory they also seem  to be off quite a bit as every time i really try to concentrate on aim it seems to group about 3" high and 7" to the right. 
The other problem with the sights is that because of the rounded top of the slide it seems nearly impossible to change out the rear sight with anything decent. (I'm open to suggestions on that one)

The grips :  Garbage , , ,there that was quick , ,
Seriously though, they are a very smooth plastic with very mild checkering. . . If your hands have any kind of moisture or oil on them you had better hold on tight. . So honestly, if you do get it, , those grips have to go.

And speaking of the grips, , make sure you check the inside of the Mag we ll and make sure the grip screws aren't in too far causing them to drag against the Mag. . Mine were and needed to be filed a little. .
I found a cheap set of Houge grips solved these problems.

Now as for the finish, , I have heard allot of mix, , well, , ok,, bad reviews, on the finish. .  All i can say is that so far mine is holding up.  I haven't noticed it wearing out anywhere prematurely. . that being said, it is a very bland matte black finish, , some may not like it, , I actually do. 

So to sum it up, , the GI Expert is what it is. . an Entry level 1911, , If you are thinking of getting into the world of 1911's it is definitely a good place to start and learn some of their quirks on. 

I'm sure there is something I have forgotten but if you have any more questions on them feel free to ask and I'll do my best.

 

[wyoshooter]

Great feedback. Now just record it and put it on the Gun Review Podcast.

[xmunckx]

I actually thought about that but I don't really have anything to record it with. Besides that. It sounds allot more credible as a written work then heard spoken threw my chowda' thick accent. Ha ha.

[Metalchemist]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.
First of all I live in Commiefornia, Unfortunately the Para G.I. Expert is not Cal legal.
So I ended up trying a Springfield Mil-Spec, and I liked it.
So that's what I ended up with. Now I run a s*** load of ammo through it and start tweaking it.

THANK'S AGAIN.

[Eric R Shelton]

I saw way too many Paras come back to the store I worked in for warranty return to ever buy one.  Oddly enough, every return was for that much-ballyhooed "Power Extractor".  If their GI lacks that feature, I guess I'd give it a shot, but I'd still be nervous about giving Para that much of my money when I could get a Springfield Armory.

The Remington 1911 R1 may be worth taking a look at, as well.

[SirBrass]

I think their GI Experts lack the power extractor.

I was talking about this at IDPA the other day and the guys there were saying "Dude, get a Springfield Loaded for a few hundred more, OR get a Taurus PT1911 for just as much."  Then they showed me one of the PT1911's one of them had with him.  Niiiiice gun, and it's just as inexpensive as the Para, but with a whole mess of features (the front and backstrap checkering was a real nice feature) and a really nice trigger.  Not to mention forged frame vs. the Para's cast frame.

[Devereaux]

I have to say, I'm impressed with all the knowledge of the new guns. I myself have Colts. I even have Colt frames for the two Ace conversions that I have (early and late model). I walk into my favorite gun store, and unless the "new" guns there are Colts, and preferably 70 series or earlier, I am not particularly interested. Maybe an Ed Brown, or a Night Hawk. Don't even care that much for Wilson's and Les Baer's, even though those are suppose to be top line guns. I have a Kimber Ultra CPD, and the only Springfield I have is an XD. No Taurus of any kind.

Maybe it's us old guys hanging onto the old Colts that is making you young guys buy all these other brands.

[Eric R Shelton]

Maybe it's us old guys hanging onto the old Colts that is making you young guys buy all these other brands.

As a matter of fact, it is, dammit!   

The prettiest 1911 I ever saw was a Colt Series 70 Mark IV, sitting used behind the glass case for $700.  The only thing "wrong" with it was the hideous Pachymar grip somebody had put on.  But the blueing was gorgeous.  We're talking a serene blue, like on my Grandpa's 1903.  A prettier gun than Stallone had in Cobra.  This thing was drop dead perfect.  I don't even know what Mark IV means, but I would have snatched that thing up in a heartbeat if only I would have had the cash available at the time.

[Alex Haddox]

I don't even know what Mark IV means, but I would have snatched that thing up in a heartbeat if only I would have had the cash available at the time.

Oh, our missed opportunities!

In the early '90s (pre-ban), I passed on a new Hungarian AK 47 for $200 from my local gun store. I had the money, but was being snobbish...and stupid! I still regret that non-purchase.

[Devereaux]

And one of my Colts is a Commander that I bought in '65 or '66 (mind can't remember the exact dates any more) - for the hair-raising price of $89. I have dragged that Colt around to any number of places it probably didn't want to go, carried it with a little worse for wear. It has Pachymar rubber grips (not the wrap-around but the old slab sided ones), a new hardened hammer and sear (about it's fourth), a set of Heine sights, a light trigger because the pull is 3.5 lbs. STILL shoots great. Nothing like an old Colt.

[Migo]

I have the Springfield TRP that I use for IPSC because of its accuracy and ease of use. I haven't had the problems described above where the slide got stuck, but I put many drops of oil between the slide and the frame after cleaning it after each match. I think it was a ProArms podcast that had an interview with a 1911 expert and he said the 1911 works best when it dripping in oil, or something like that.

The only problem I had was in my last match when my CMC mags would not fall out all the way after I pressed the mag release button. I don't think its the grip screws, but I'll check.

[Devereaux]

?Did you change the grips or screws lately. Else it would be unlikely that suddenly they would be a problem. Consider - dirt/gunk/oilymess in the well. You noted that you oil it regularly (which is certainly what most 1911's seem to like) and shooting that kind of weapon results in "stuff" in the well. Weak mag springs can also be at fault.