Lever Action .45 colt vs. .44 Mag pros and cons?

[Daeglan]

What are the pros and cons to a lever gun in these calibers.

[Chris]

It really depends what you want to do with them. For hunting I would give a slight edge to the .44 Mag simply because there are effective bullets designed to be driven at and properly expand at the higher velocity you can achieve from the longer barrel. But, it's a slight edge. Beyond that I'd call them pretty equal.
Chris Christian

[tscentral]

Have to agree with Chris.

But there are some more questions that should also be asked.

Do you have or expect to get other guns in said caliber?

Do you reload or expect to reload in said caliber?

There is a lot to be said about the logistics of supporting the same round. Now if the other gun is a handgun (don't want to rehash handgun-carbine-same-caliber stuff) you are actually going to want a different load, so the logistics get more difficult, but some what simpler than a totally different caliber.

All the answers are out there, the real problem is finding the right question.

Hunter

[MasAyoob]

I'll go .44 Mag, because I've experienced some extraction failures with lever actions in .45 Colt, and seen the same happen to many others. The cartridge was designed for the 1873 Colt Single Action Army, which loaded one at a time through a gate and extracted via a side-mounted punch rod. It has a very small rim. I've seen rifle extractors skip over it, creating a "double feed" malfunction.  Saw something similar in the S&W Model 25-5 double action revolver; extractor star would occasionally slip over a case rim, leaving a spent casing stuck under the ejector star. One ammo company (Georgia Arms? Atlanta Arms?) produced a .45 Colt load with a larger rim just for S&W revolvers, though I never tried it in a .45 Colt lever action.

There's a reason Winchester never chambered their 19th Century rifles in .45 Colt, the most popular revolver caliber of the time, while they were doing a land-office business with Colt-compatible .44-40, .38-40, etc. (.44 WCF/.38 WCF.)

Also agree with Chris that the .44 Magnum chambering gives the shooter a far wider option range in factory ammo.

best,
Mas

[gitt1]

I've read in reloading manuals that 44mag was built for slow burning powders, which would lend it to higher efficiency in carbines. It is quite effective on 13 stripe ground squirrels.
Larry

[Daeglan]

I don't really have any plans for one other than it being another rifle in my self defense arsenal. I already have an AR. so it would be more of a fun gun. I do hope to get a Taurus Judge one day. I wouldn't be opposed to a 44mag/44 special pistol. Maybe do some SAS or Cowboy stuff.

Mostly it would be a fun gun. I just want my fun guns to also be able to be used in other ways.

[Doc Wesson]

Unless you just WANT a .45 Colt lever... and there is absolutely nothing wrong w/ that.... get the .44 mag... again.. easier to get ammo and lots of fun too. Yes.. SAS is fun.. the combo you cite is spot on....

[Daeglan]

do they make sas style guns in 44mag?

[Chris]

Check with Henry Repeating Arms.. you can Google them. Their guns are slick.
Chris Christian

[Daeglan]

I spose I should have been more clear.

I meant Sas style pistols.
did they have swing out cylinders? Or did they just use loading gates?


And yes I have been lusting after the henrys so that's gonna be the kind of Lever I plan on getting.

[Charlie Foxtrot]

.
For SASS, most pards prefer the 1866 or 1873 Uberti clones, or the Marlins.  It's harder to make a Henry run fast.  They do have the advantage of being 'merican made with an excellent customer service reputation. 

Pistol?  I like my Ruger Vaqueros.  Great starter pistols: built like tanks.  The "Old Model" Vaqueros can be found occasionally in 44 Spec/Mag.  I believe you will have to shoot .44 Russian or Special cases to be absolutely legal.  However, you'll probably get a wink and a nod for low powered .44 Mag rounds. 

Most Cowboys stick with the 45 Colt for historical (hysterical) purposes. 

[Daeglan]

What about how the cylinders work is the Colt Loading gate the only way they did things back then?

[Chris]

I'm gonna bow out of this SASS stuff now. Not because I disapprove of it... just because I can't afford another expensive shooting hobby. With that said... and I could be wrong here... I believe the .38 Spl is SASS legal... introduced before 1900... (correct me if I'm wong CF) and I did do a test on the Ruger Vaquero in .357 and .45 LC when it first came out and found it to be one VERY SWEET SA revolver. The Vaquero is good to go. And, yes it used the standard SAA loading gate. I think most serious SASS competitors carry two of them to solve the "on the clock" reloading problems (chime in anytime CF... I'm in unfamiliar territory here).
Chris Christian

[CaptBullets]

What about how the cylinders work is the Colt Loading gate the only way they did things back then?

Nope.  S&W had their top break models, which did not use a loading gate.  The best known being the S&W Model 3 which included the American, Russian and Schofield varieties.  The S&W 3 had a distinct advantage over the Colt during reloading.  Much like a modern swing out cylinder revolver the model 3 had an extractor that ejected all 6 cartridges at the same time.  Uberti makes a number of Model 3 replicas in several calibers including 45 Colt but none in 44 Magnum.   

For shear versatility I find the 44 Magnum hard to beat.  I might be biased since I have  both revolvers and a lever action rifle in 44 Magnum. 

 

[Charlie Foxtrot]

I'm gonna bow out of this SASS stuff now. Not because I disapprove of it... just because I can't afford another expensive shooting hobby. With that said... and I could be wrong here... I believe the .38 Spl is SASS legal... introduced before 1900... (correct me if I'm wong CF) and I did do a test on the Ruger Vaquero in .357 and .45 LC when it first came out and found it to be one VERY SWEET SA revolver. The Vaquero is good to go. And, yes it used the standard SAA loading gate. I think most serious SASS competitors carry two of them to solve the "on the clock" reloading problems (chime in anytime CF... I'm in unfamiliar territory here).
Chris Christian

Chris; I've only been in SASS for about 2 years now, but I'll try to help.

The 38 Special is SASS legal.  It's what my wife and I, and about 50% of the other competitors, shoot.  It's economical and controllable.  The 38 was originally a black powder round, so it is completely hysterically correct.  I have seen pards use .357 Mag cases when their Marlins were finicky about case length. 

Nowadays, it is rare for a pistol to be reloaded on a stage.  I guess it was a lot more common 5 - 10 years ago, when an additional round or two were required by some sadistic stage designers in order to finish the shooting string.  We all wear two pistols for our 10 shots. One pard broke a pistol, and was going to shoot with one gun and reload on the clock.  He turned around and found three people offering him spare guns for his use: it's just the Cowboy Way.   

The Vaqueros are indeed sweet guns.  They are modeled on the Colt Single Action Army (SAA), but with significant improvements in design and metallurgy.  It does have the classic side loading gate.  Vaqueros come in two flavors: the New Model Vaquero, and the no longer produced "Old Model" Vaquero.  The Old Model Vaquero (OMV), or more properly just the Vaquero, was slightly bigger, heavier and far more stout than the SAA.  The New Model Vaquero (NMV) is the same size as the SAA, and is just a bit heavier and significantly stouter.  The OMV is a M-1A1 Abrams, the NMV is "only" a M-60, the Colt a M-113.  It's a given that no one could live long enough to wear out a Vaquero. 

You're a wise man Chris, to stay away from such a fun and addictive shooting sport.  For the crazies like me, go to SASSnet.com. 

Charlie Foxtrot

[Anthony]

Hi Daeglan,

I agree with Mas and back the .44 Magnum model.

My old shooting partner was once a .45 Colt fanatic and bought a Winchester Trapper in .45 Colt for home defense.  We experience some of the extraction failures Mas mentioned earlier in this thread.  The Trapper was sold shortly thereafter and the .45 Colt was replaced by his new favorite caliber the .38 Special which still rules to this day.

- Anthony