Need help picking my first shotgun

[brassbent]

Hi all,

let me start off by saying thanks to everyone for making up such a great community.
Before listening to ProArms I was completely ignorant about firearms and a little skeptical about them. After about a year of listening I've since purchased my own handgun, taken lessons on proper use, and have encouraged my friends to come with me shooting.

I've started saving up for a shotgun for home defense and have listened to podcast 17a&17b about three times already.

I'm probably going to go with a 12ga pump because:
1. choice in 20ga loads are very limited in my area (vs the multitude of 12 ga) and
2. auto shotguns are out of my price range right now.

The reigning champs seem to be the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500/590.

Looking over the specs in the catalogs and asking my friends, local law enforcement, and gun clerks I've heard that:

Remington 870:
- Smoother action
- Tend to be smaller, lighter, and better fit/finsh than the mossberg
- Slightly easier to disassemble for cleaning
- Supposedly less felt recoil because of the better pad
- Most common shotgun in the US - might be easier to find police trade-in models and parts for repair/modification

Mossberg:
- Bigger tolerances (i.e. the rattle) for better functioning in dirt,mud, etc.
- Better positioning of the safety and slide release
- My instructor is a former marine and has more experience with the 590
and thus will better be able to explain any function issues
- Shell lifter is flush and won't pinch fingers when loading shells like in the 870



If it helps with the decision I'm a small guy (5'6" 145lbs) and will probably look for the more compact models with a shorter length of pull, synthetic stock (NO pistol grip, ever), and add a side saddle. This will be a personal and not a pool weapon for the house.




Both are excellent shotguns and I do not wish to start an argument.
I simply want to ask about everyone's opinions, experiences, advice and comments for a beginner.

Thank you so much for your time.


Best,
Brass

p.s. I do sincerely apologize for the long post. Just wanted to be thorough.

[Daeglan]

Does anyone local to you have either of these models and have you tried shooting them?

[Chris]

Both the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500 are excellent and reliable pump shotguns (I have no experience with the Mossberg 590). I carried a 870 (issue weapon) in Vietnam... but in a later private security life I choose a Mossberg 500... 18.5 inch barrel with rifle sights. I like the top tang safety on the Mossberg more than the side trigger guard safety on the 870... easier to use with either hand. I like the feed ramp system on the Mossberg more than the 870. The Mossberg is lighter in weight (whether that's a plus or not I'll leave up to you). If I was going to buy a new home defense shotgun today (don't need one, have one... although mine is no longer made/imported) I would see if Mossberg made that same gun in a 20 gauge (#3 buck is just fine inside 25 yards). If not, I would go for the same gun in 12 gauge with #4 or #1 2 3/4 inch buckshot loads. I guess that means I would prefer the Mossberg 500.
If, however, you're going to be doing A LOT of shooting... I would go with the steel receiver on the 870 over the aluminum alloy receiver on the Mossberg. But, I'm talking thousands of rounds.
Chris Christian 

[Daeglan]

I would also say go back and listen to the 2 part shotgun episode.

[xmunckx]

I personally own a 500 and can honestly say that, with the exception of going out and competing in sporting clay matches, the 500 does everything one needs a shotgun to do and it does it all day long without complaining.
 

[tom]

While it is true that 20 gauge loads can be harder to find there are plenty of online sources and it is appearing in more stores in supply again. 12 gauge will always have more on the shelves but Cabelas or Midway or our friends in FL I am sure all have 20 gauge supplies if needed.  Key like any is practice, especially reloads under stress.  Our last IDPA had a shotgun side match.  I brought an under/over to a 14 shot contest vs. pumps and autos.  I ended mid-pack and the main reason was that even through I had to reload 7 times, I knew how.

tom

[Jerome from California]

I had a Mossberg 500 in 20 ga, but I sold it when I went to a coach gun. It worked great. My complaints were about ergonomics. The polymer forearm was a little bulky (wide) and an aftermarket replacement was not available at the time. ATI now has a trimmer forearm for the 20 ga. I also found the stock a little too narrow and would hurt my cheek when firing. This I was able to rectify with a neoprene cheek pad.

[Aaron L]

I'm a huge fan of the Remington 870. I had one for about 29 years and some dirtbag decided he needed it more than I did. When dove season came around I had to borrow a Mossberg 500 and the whole time all I could think about was how I wished I had my 870. The 500 just didn't feel right to me, it wasn't as smooth as my 870. On this particular shotgun the safety was on the front of the trigger guard which I did not like at all. Happily I have since purchased another Remington 870 to replace the one that was stolen from me. I'm a happy camper again and I do plan on buying another 870. The 870's have been around forever and have more than proven themselves over the years so finding one or parts/accessories for one will be extremely easy.

On another note, I was in the local LE distributor and someone brought in a new Winchester 12ga shotgun that was pretty sweet. I got to handle it and it was smooth and well balanced and I could shake it and it didn't rattle at all.....nice. Everyone in there that handled it was impressed. It would be interesting to see how it shoots. It retails for around $350. I'm not 100% sure this is the exact one I saw because I don't remember the number but I think this is it.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=021C&mid=512252

Aaron

[Charlie Foxtrot]

.
For my money:  Mossberg 590, 8 round mag tube, with Speed Stock.  No side saddle or other ways to keep ammo on the gun: they get in the way when your using the shotty in unusual positions, gun would be lighter without too.  I have a bandoleer if I need more rounds.  Laserlite Tri-Rail for a tac light and maybe laser. 

But you've already made the important choice: you can't go wrong with either the Mossy or Rem. 

[BikerRN]

Both brands you are considering are good, well made firearms.

For me it was an easy choice, as I'm issued an 870 at work, so I stuck with what I know. You don't have that problem, but you did allude to one very important concept. The availability of spare parts has been easier to find for the 870. That, for me, is a consideration for my personal guns.

Also, ammo availability is a consideration. Often you can find some 12 Guage load that will work for the time being, but can have a dickens of a time finding 20 Guage ammo that will do the same IME.

Don't knock a pistol grip with a buttstock. They are much easier when shooting at longer distances, IMO and experience. Each stock has it's pluses and minuses. You will just have to weigh them against each other and decide for yourself.

I love the Guage and opt for a shotgun for home defense, especially when firing at handgun distances. I look at it like this: The handgun says, "GET OFF ME!" The shotgun says, "GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!" Finally the rifle says, "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

Biker

[Matt G]

+1 with Chris.  Both guns are great.  I have a 870 20g for the ladies in the house and I have a 500 8round.  I added a light to mine and a side saddle.  I would say try to shoot both, make a choice, and I'm sure you will be well served.

Matt G

[flop-shank]

I'm not tall either (5'7"). I think you might want to consider an Ithaca 37 Featherlight. The receiver is shorter than the Remington for a shorter OAL and the gun is lighter. Compared side by side, the Ithaca is faster on the all important first shot, but the heavier Remington is the king of follow up shots. I use an 18" Ithaca and 18" 870 Wingmaster for HD guns. Theory aside, I consider them interchangeable.

Five shooters with no side saddle are better balanced than the higher capacity guns. That's what Mr. lowtech (me) likes and uses. Spend the money on practice ammo.

I would look for a used 37. Or get a used 870 Wingmaster or Police model. www.summitgunbroker.com and www.budsgunshop.com sell law enforcement trade-ins from time to time. Just keep your eyes peeled and pounce when they come in. I got my Wingmaster from Summit. It was filthy and looked like hell, having spent over forty years in a southern prison system, but I gave it a thorough bath in laquer thinner, excepting the wood. I cleaned the stock with some of that syrupy orange furniture cleaner and green Scotchbrite, then rinsed the thing off in the bathtub. As the stock must have been originally oil finished (there was no evidence of any finish, just dirt and more dirt) and not gloss urethane, this method of cleaning worked well. Once dry, a few coats of true oil made the thirsty wood look great. A call to Remington revealed a 1963 birthdate. Once lubed and reassemble the gun runs like a champ. It looks used, but like an old worn Les Paul, it has a certain charm and appeal. Most LE trade ins are rough on the outside and have good to great internals. Mine was no exception.

I'm not hot on the 870 Express guns. No MIM extractors for me, thank you. You can get a used Wingmaster in your hands for about the same price, I would guess, and have something nicer when you're done elbow greasing it.

I also think the 870 vs. Mossberg safety location is a nonissue, especially if you keep the gun in "cruiser ready". It's easy to curl the left middle finger under the trigger guard to disengage it. I'm a right handed shooter that shoots ambidextrous with all guns and would guess that disengaging the safety as I do would only be easier for a lefty.

[tom]

Orvis has a podcast called the Orvis Double Barrel podcast that is up on itunes.  It is a wingshooting podcast so oriented to traps, skeet, and hunting.  If you do any of these it is outstanding.  Great show on turkey calls recently.  Anyhow, they had a great show on shotgun fitting.  Most defensive use shotguns are not "fit" quite like a trap/skeet gun but it is very informative and the section on length of pull is something everyone can benefit from. 

tom