014 The “High-End” 1911

[A.C.O.CHICAGO]

Hi Gail:

Great show! Could you post pictures of those wonderful guns you guys were describing on the show? I'm a "Gun-Looker" - I need to see what a $3,000 gun looks like.

Take care,
Miguel

[Gail]

I did take pictures but they did not come out very good. Got a new camera and it's a little touchier than my older one. I will post a couple of pics tomorrow.

Gail

[N.U.G.U.N.]

I didn't see an Episode 13 thread. But I enjoyed that show too. Although it seemed like the end was cut off?

Looking forward to this episode...

[Gail]

It did cut off and I didn't notice it until I played it for a friend a week later so I went back and fixed it so if you delete it and redownload it the whole thing should be there.

Gail

[Gail]

Posted the pics on the ProArms Podcast Website. the Morris custom gun is the $10,000 gun.

How many "Tactical Tupperware" guns can I buy for that???

Gail

[A.C.O.CHICAGO]

Wow - amazing pictures! Thanks for posting!

Miguel   

[1911man]

Mark Morris here, ....you had me at, "Nice Rack" ...only Mas can get away with this. Mas, thank you for the props. I am happy you still are getting trigger time with the CC10mm. We did have some fun at the last Second Chance eh!
Good Shooting,
Mark
By the way, Yes, they cost some $ but one thing the folks missed (and thy did not miss much..I loved the logical conversion)  is the attention to detail. Detail is what makes the differance. Like everyting else.

[Gail]

Glad you liked it Mark, I guess I Have to answer since so far I have not been able to get Mas to post here...yet.

Gail

[Kevin]

I feel like Chris Matthews. I get a tingle running up and down my leg when you guys talk about 1911's.

[Gail]

You're a sick man Kevin.

 

Gail

[N.U.G.U.N.]

FYI, in case anyone wants to visit me in York county Pennsylvania...

A local FFL has a pretty gorgeous custom 1911. Not sure who it's made and customized by but I could get more info from the FFL.

It's a titanium steel mix if I recall correctly. But get this, the steel slide is pattern-wielded Damascus steel.

Sweet!!!!  If I had $3,000+ that would be my pretty gun. I do love Damascus steel. Having a Damascus blade and a Damascus 1911 would just be gorgeous...  :-)

[Chris]

There is a reason why, many years back, shotshell makers issued warnings against firing modern smokeless shotgun rounds from older Damascus steel-barreled shotguns that were originally designed for black powder loads. The reason was the Damascus steel would not handle the elevated pressures of smokeless powder. I don't know how that would apply to a Damascus slide on a semi-auto pistol. But, it did indicate to me that Damascus steel is not as hard, or strong, as modern steels.
Maybe that has changed. Maybe not. But, a slide takes a beating and needs to be hardened steel to maintain its specifications. That's why, in this age of polymer everything, you still see hardened steel slides. Can Damascus handle that? I don't know. But, if I wanted a gun to shoot I wouldn't spend $3,000 to find out. For a wall hanger? Sure, why not.
Chris Christian

[N.U.G.U.N.]

First off, I stated only the slide was Damascus and not the barrel.

That said, regarding the Damascus Steel barrels. I read a bit about that. That the issue was not so much an issue of strength but of manufacturing quality. It's easier to maintain a quality level of poured steel barrel. However, what I read stated that a company tested both barrels and surprising the pattern wielded steel actually proved stronger.

It's just that it's more difficult to ensure uniform quality.  All that said, pattern wielded steel for a slide is more than ample.

***

"Can Damascus handle that?"

If made right...some of the bladesmiths today make some amazing pattern wielded swords.

[Chris]

I'm not concerned with the slide "blowing up". That's obviously not going to happen. My commments regarding the hardness of Damascus steel have to do with wear and tolerences. To achieve a good level of accuracy the 1911 design relies on consistent fit/tolerences in the slide to frame rails. barrel bushing to slide, and the barrel locking lugs to slide. All of these areas are subject to metal-on-metal wear -- in in the case of the locking lugs and frame rails -- that wear occurs in a rather violent manner. A harden steel slide can handle that wear for many thousand rounds and maintain acceptable tolerences. I don't know if Damascus can do that. As far as comparing a slide to a knife, you're comparing apples and oranges.
A quality blade is designed to have steel worn away in order to sharpen the edge, and to have a certain amount of flex inherent in the steel used, so as not to break. Knives require a less hardened alloy than a slide.
Chris Christian

[N.U.G.U.N.]

"A harden steel slide can handle that wear for many thousand rounds and maintain acceptable tolerences."

I think it would depend on the alloys used for the pattern wielding.  But I'd think that Damascus would be up to the challenges of a slide.

[Chris]

I hope you're right. Like I said, I don't know. But, keep us posted. I'd be interested knowing how that Damascus slide works out 8 or 9 thousand rounds down the road.
Thanks,
Chris Christian

[tscentral]

Chris is right on comparing a slide to a knife, you're comparing apples and oranges. But comparing a modern damascus slide to a vintage damascus shotgun barrel is cumquats to pomegranates.

The problem with barrels of old, were the flux used as well as empty pockets among the matrix, and the fact they were hand forged. Leading to corrosion from the flux and pockets, to inconsistent strength from the forging process that lead to the pockets.

Modern slides to not have any of these problems. No corrosive flux left in the matrix and the roller forging process eliminates the empty pockets in the matrix. It leaves you with a billet of steel to start with.

Now is it as strong as a normal steel slide? A stainless steel slide is not as strong, either. And I did not want to bring it up, but what ever those Hi-Points are made out can't be as strong as even the damascus slides. And people say they hold up.

Hunter