Questions from a Newbie Looking for Opinions

[Beldavius]

So I'm all excited!  I just received my MA LTC-Class A with no restrictions.  Yay!!!  Now I'm looking at buying my first gun(s).  I want to get a bolt action .22 for target shooting so I can do that with my kids (thinking of the CMP Kimbers that look like a good deal), but first I'd like to get a handgun for personal/home defense.  I'd like to know what your opinions are regarding:

-caliber: I know .45 is widely regarded as the best in terms of stopping power, etc, but what about .40 or .357 or 9mm?
-manufacturer:  Are there any manufacturers that I should steer clear of?  Any particular models of a specific manufacturer that are considered not very good?
-type of ammunition

Any comments welcome.  I've been looking at the Sig Sauer P229 in .40 caliber as well as the S&W M&P in .40 cal.  I don't think that I'll be carrying for long periods of time, and mostly will be home defense, so the weight and size of the gun isn't too much of an issue.  I would like to be able to bring it to the range and shoot it regularly (at least 1-2 times per week)  so ammo cost is a consideration.  Are there other manufacturers or models I should be looking at?  My budget only allows below $1K, so some are obviously out.

Thanks in advance for your opinions/advice!

David

[Chris]

David,
If you want opinions... you came to the right place. Team Pro Arms has them in abundance.
RE: handgunfor home defense. There is nothing wrong with a 9mm for personal defense, and pathologists will tell you that they can't really tell the difference between 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP slugs when conducting an autopsy. If decent bullets are used, the 9mm works well. Those bullets (in my opinion... and I'm sure some of my Team members may have other opinions) would be 147 or 124 grain Federal HST +P, Speer 124 grain Gold Dot +P, and Winchester Ranger 127 +P+. I would stay away from "Boutique loads" from Doubletap, Black Hills, Cor-Bon, and any other company that isn't a major maker.
The advantage to the 9mm is that it has the most mild recoil of the the semi-autos, and is the least expensive when it comes to buying low-priced practice loads. In a normal sized service pistol, it also holds more rounds, and if you ever have to use it, you can't have "too many" bullets.
Among those 9mm models that I feel have proven themselves as reliable, easy to handle, easy to maintain, and more than accurate enough... would be the S&W M&P, and any 9mm model Glock. I would, and do, carry those makes. Another is the CZ SP-01 Phantom. It's a new polymer frame (under 30 ounces) holds 19 rounds, and I have one in for T&E that works very well. All CZ guns I have fired work very well, and I've won trophies in competition with them, and have one as a permanent car gun. This is not a knock on other makes. It's just what I would carry.... personal preference.
As for a .22 bolt action rifle... there are a bunch available and you won't go wrong (for what you want to do with it) with a model from Remington, Marlin, Kimber, or Browning T-Bolt. My personal .22 rifle is a Thompson/Center Classic .22. It's a semi-auto, which may not appeal to you, but it will drive nails, has a great trigger, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
Hope that helps... if not, feel free to follow up. That's what we're here for.
Chris Christain

[Beldavius]

Chris,

Thanks for the great opinions!  Everywhere I read, people seem to "poo-pooh" the 9mm, so it's nice to hear someone actually endorse it with good reasons.  I noticed you didn't mention the Sig.  Any particular misgivings, or just there's so many good guns out there?

Also, is there a significant increase (on average) in the recoil going from 9mm to .40, especially if using +P or +P+ loads?

Thanks again!

David

[Matt G]

Well, I was going to offer up something but it is in there with all the other stuff Chris sent you. (Much less articulate however)  This is why this place is so awesome!!!   

Matt

[Chris]

 I have no problem with SIGs. They make good guns. I mentioned the guns that I have used enough to become totally confident in. The M&P, Glock and CZs are also less expensive, while delivering what I consider to be comparable performance. I am VERY pragmatic about guns. I don't gush over a particular model. I want a tool that works. If I can get a solid tool for $300-$500 less, I'm all for it. I'm also not going to recommend a gun to one of our listeners that I have not used extensively and have the utmost confidence in.
Tip for the future. If you ever hear me use the phrase I WOULD CARRY THIS GUN... you can bet that I am sold on it, and would carry it, and that will be based on my personal experience with that gun. I don't work for the gun companies, and don't have to tout their products. If I fail to make that statement about a particular model it's not because it's junk (if it was I would say so) but it's because I have not spent enough time with it to definitely state that I would carry it.
I carry one or more handguns daily. None are experiments. I figure my life is a bit more valuable than that. I carry what exhaustive personal experience and testing tells me will work when I need it. I don't see where you would go wrong with a M&P, Glock, or CZ... but that doesn't mean they are the only guns that work.
Chris Christian

[Chris]

My bad... I missed something. You asked if the .40 S&W had noticeably more recoil than the 9mm +P loads. I forgot to answer that.
My experience has been... from the same sized pistol (weight, etc) the .40 S&W will have a much snappier recoil than the 9mm in all bullet weights other than the 165 .40 S&W loads. That's similar to a 9mm.
When the S&W M&P first came out, and was tough to get, I got one in .40 S&W for a gunzine T&E. Loved the gun, hated the recoil. I sent the gun back. Probably... considering the availability situation....l
could have bought the gun at my price and sold it the next day for $100 more, but that didn't occur to me.
I did go through HELL to quickly acquire a 9mm version in the same size and have won a pile of IDPA trophies with it. Love the M&P and now have one in .45 that I am shooting in IDPA matches.
But, I have no interest in the .40. Kicks too much. High pressure cartidge in a 9mm handgun body. The recoil difference would be the same in any 9mm package that now chambers the .40 S&W.
Chris

[hillbilly]

Chris,

Thanks for the great opinions!  Everywhere I read, people seem to "poo-pooh" the 9mm, so it's nice to hear someone actually endorse it with good reasons.  I noticed you didn't mention the Sig.  Any particular misgivings, or just there's so many good guns out there?

Also, is there a significant increase (on average) in the recoil going from 9mm to .40, especially if using +P or +P+ loads?

Thanks again!

David

I found through reading many forums that there are a lot of the "Mall Nija" types out there. Along with the whole 9mm dis-ing, they state that they would never draw their gun without shooting someone, and would carry locked and cocked with no safety Yada Yada.

Not so here, so far I have found this (GRRN) to have great down to earth people and advice. I carry a Glock 9mm because it is cheaper and has plenty of "Stopping power". I belive it is 99% shot placement and 1% the round. Unless your up against a Grisley Bear or Body Armour, etc...

I gerneraly agree with the responses above... I say,"What they said..."

I love it here.

[Chris]

Hillbilly,

Thank you for your compliments. Team Pro Arms does try to be realistic. And, we have the people to do it. Without going into specific names, you have a couple of top law enforcment trainers, former LE SWAT team members, several established CCW instructors (two of whom are female, and are great when dealing with the issues that females face when CCW as opposed to males... and who can out shoot a helluva lot of males) and one old military guy with combat experience who spent a lot of time as a combat arms instructor, once he survived the first part. None of us work for any gun company. We work for you. What we hope to do is allow our combined experience to answer your questions to the best of our ability...... and if we don't know the answer, we won't BS you. We'll tell you that we don't know and try to direct you to someone/somewhere that does.
Glad you enjoy this site. We'll try to maintain your trust in us.
Chris

[Gail]

To add onto what Chris has already said, if you are looking at SIGs why not consider the SIG P250? That's the one where you can change grips and Barrels to make it anywhere from a full size 40 down to a compact 9mm and many other configurations. We reviewed it a while ago on one of our podcasts http://proarms.podbean.com/category/sig-sauer/ I have been a big fan of this gun ever since we tested it.

Gail